Expensive Cardboard ;-)

 Happy new year to you all and may all your collector dreams come true 😉

After the dust of Kassel Fair settled down it is time to study again in our hobby.

Between X-Mas and new year I had some time to try out the You Tube possibilities. That way, I will try to make it more interesting for collectors and also for young collectors to come into our hobby. But I am just starting and there are a lot of things to think about. So if you like check that out and leave a feedback it would be very helpful. The first videos are in German language but I am working on English versions….so please be patient.

My Channel 

Reflecting all the things I saw at the Kassel fair I wondered about very expensive cardboard……

Yes, that’s right. Cardboard boxes which were used 70 years back to wrap or protect a medal case or a document is on one side hard to find and sometimes very expensive 😉

But I want to go deeper in a cardboard mytery because you might never see one in real nor bringing it into your collection.

Red Map Top Con (3)

Let’s go a few years back when I had the chance to buy my first Knight’s Cross Red Leather Folder or Knights’ Cross Map. As far as my information are right there should be only 420 Maps out there!!!

Here is the story:

A gentlemen called me and asked me if I want to buy a KC Map from a higher ranking officer of the Army. My hands got sweaty and I said that I am interested, depends on the price he asked for. The price was OK and he sent me pictures via Email. Nice Map, all how it should be an we made an appointment close to Hamburg. Two days before the meeting he called and asked if I like also the cardboard protection for it…..Well I told him that it would be just great to have it too. So I checked the net to get an idea how a cardboard for the KC Map looks like and what I have to check before I finally buy it.

Red Map Top Con (6)

The ”purchase” day came and I went all the way to Hamburg to meet the seller. It was a nice little restaurant were we had lunch and later on we were planning to make the deal in a room away from the guests.

He had a big bag where the “holy grail” was inside. Unpacking it I was disappointed. Yes, it was a nice KC Map in a good condition, but the cardboard was only a painters cardboard of the size where a  KC Map fits in.

Red Map Top Con (2)

Well, no problem. I bought the Map and brought it all home.

Nice one, pretty good condition and nice to have. But as you all know….you cannot keep everything. So I sold it a few years later. I told myself that I can`t keep one without the cardboard ;-))….had to let it go!

Red Map Top Con (4)

Scanning the net for nice KC Maps you can find one from time to time with the cardboard together. More expensive but very interesting to see. That time I asked myself if the cardboard cases are all made the same way, with the green corner protections and the writing on it……Yes they should all be the same.

Lucky me, a few months ago I got a big fat KC Map in my hand to study it and here you see what it looks like.

Red Map Top Con (9)

My plan was to give you all the measurements and the weight and so on and so on. But a good friend told me (and he is so right with is). If I give all the data, the forgers will start doing fake cardboard boxes for the Maps…..

So if a big Red Map is offered to you and it is in a cardboard, just drop me a line via email and I give the measurements to you. That way we can be sure you don’t get recycled crap in your hand.

But before come to the end the historical background to the Knights Crosses for you:

Red Map Top Con (5)

On March 10th, 1813, Prussian King Friedrich Wilhelm III established the Iron Cross as a temporary gallantry award for bestowal during times of war. Originally the Iron Cross was introduced in three grades with a Grand Cross intended for award to Senior Commanders for successfully leading troops in combat and the First and Second classes for award to all ranks for bravery or merit in action. The Iron Crosses were reinstituted by King Wilhelm I on July 19th, 1870 for award during the Franco-Prussian War and again on August 5th, 1914, by King Wilhelm II for award during WWI. On September 1st, 1939 Hitler once more reinstituted the Iron Cross series of awards in the First, Second and Grand Cross Classes and established the new Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross. Hitler reserved the right to personally authorize bestowal of the Knight’s Cross and all ranks were eligible for the award. Originally the criteria for bestowal of the Knight’s Cross was outstanding personal bravery or decisive leadership in combat but this was later expanded to include personnel who had continually demonstrated exceptional acts of courage or an extremely high success rate on the battlefield. The Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross was the most coveted award of the Third Reich period and those presented with it were elevated to the status of a national hero. In total it is estimated that roughly 7,360 Knight’s Crosses were awarded during WWII, a relatively small number when one considers the amount of troops fielded and the magnitude of the war. Due to the prestige of the award personnel who could afford it would opt to buy a jeweler’s copy for everyday wear with the actual award being put away for safe keeping. Of Note: The LDO, Leistungsgemeinschaft der Deutschen Ordenshersteller, (Administration of German Medal Manufacturers), began regulating the manufacture of German awards in March 1941 as a quality control agent for awards that were intended for retail sale and manufacturers were to use an assigned LDO, „L“, code on their products destined for retail sales. Awards that were to be bestowed by the government were also issued an official numerical government contract code known as a, Lieferantnummer, (Contractors Number), that was issued by the Präsidialkanzlei des Führers, (Presidential Council of the Führers), for formally approved manufacturers. The manufacturing firms that were licenced by both the Präsidialkanzlei des Führers and the LDO and would have used the same dies to stamp both the official issue and retail sales types of awards making them virtually indistinguishable from one another except for the markings. Regulations of November 1st, 1941 prohibited further manufacturing of the Knight’s Cross for retail sale. Of Note: On June 3rd, 1940 a higher echelon of the Knight’s Cross was established with the introduction of the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves and on July 15th, 1941 an additional two higher grades of the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves were introduced with the establishment of the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves and Swords and the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. Finally on December 29th, 1944 Hitler established the final grade of the Knight’s Cross with the Golden Oak-Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. Also of Note: The Grand Cross of the Knight’s Cross was only awarded once to Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring and the Knight’s Cross with Golden Oak-Leaves, Swords and Diamonds was also only awarded once to Oberstleutnant Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

 

Franziska Kobell, the graphic artist whose calligraphy & gilding graced the Knight’s Cross documents.

 

Frieda Thiersch, the bookbinder who was responsible for the design & production of the folders, frames & cassettes for the Knight’s Cross documents, seen here holding a fine example of her craftmanship

 

Here we have also another example how the Maps were delivered, wrapped in protective paper and in the cardboard box. Picture came from Frank Scholz /Scholz Militaria. Thanks Frank !!

 

F. Scholz Militaria
F. Scholz Militaria
F. Scholz Militaria
F. Scholz Militaria

 

Finally I foud some pictures of Reporduction cardboards, so here you have an idea what they look like.

Reproduction 2
Reproduction 1

 

So all the bst and GOOD HUNTING !!

 

If you like what your read, give me a like on Facebook

Take care

Best

Sascha

 

„Subscribe“ / „abonniere“

 

Copyright 2019 : Alle Rechte bei dem Verfasser Sascha Ulderup

Schickle Knight`s Cross and some questions

Hi Gents, the days passing by and a lot of things happen in the world of collecting. Surfing through the different areas of WAF, GCA  and MFF I found very interesting items. Some are so interesting that I asked the collectors if I can use the material for the BLOG…..Sometimes I get an answer and sometimes not.

Well that’s the way it is. Interesting thing for me as, somebody who is actually not that deep in the field of Knight`s Crosses involved, are the pictures the user Ludwig posted on WAF showing his outstanding Otto Schickle Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross in a really rare LDO case. I asked him to bring it on “Bacuffz.com” and he gave me a thumbs up.

Schickle in LDO Case by Ludwig Typ 1 no marker

Looking at this nice set you will see that there is no marker on the cross but you have the LDO sign on the case. Ludwig made clear that an LDO cased has to have a marked Knight`s Cross inside to follow the regulations. Whatever brought the set together is a secret of the veteran who had this cross during the time of the war.

Schickle in LDO Case by Ludwig 4

While researching a little bit I found the interesting story that Otto Schickle from Pforzheim in Germany has indeed manufactured Knight`s Crosses but only a short time from May 1940 until July 1941. The first 5 month they produced without L/15 marker, after that they put the marker on the loop. Something happened but nobody knows what it was, but Schickle lost his rights to produce Knight`s Crosses anymore. So that way there are only few Knight`s Crosses made by Schickle on the market.

After more and more hours on that topic I learned that there are two different Schickle Knight`s Crosses around the collector`s world.

Let´s call them Type 1 and Type 2 for better understanding.

First we have to get into the history of the Knight`s Cross before we get into details of Schickle Crosses….

Schickle Type 1 A.jpg

 

On March 10th, 1813, Prussian King Friedrich Wilhelm III established the Iron Cross as a temporary gallantry award for bestowal during times of war. Originally the Iron Cross was introduced in three grades with a Grand Cross intended for award to Senior Commanders for successfully leading troops in combat and the First and Second classes for award to all ranks for bravery or merit in action. The Iron Cross were reinstituted by King Wilhelm I on July 19TH 1870 for award during the Franco-Prussian War and again on August 5th, 1914, by King Wilhelm II for award during WWI. On September 1st, 1939 Hitler once more reinstituted the Iron Cross series of awards in the First, Second and Grand Cross Classes and established the new Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross. Hitler reserved the right to personally authorize bestowal of the Knight’s Cross and all ranks were eligible for the award. Originally the criteria for bestowal of the Knight’s Cross was outstanding personal bravery or decisive leadership in combat but this was later expanded to include personnel who had continually demonstrated exceptional acts of courage or an extremely high success rate on the battlefield.

Schickle Cross with maker L 15 Ludwig Collection

The Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross was the most coveted award of the Third Reich period and those presented with it were elevated to the status of a national hero. In total it is estimated that roughly 7,360 Knight’s Crosses were awarded during WWII, a relatively small number when one considers the amount of troops fielded and the magnitude of the war. Due to the prestige of the award personnel who could afford it would opt to buy a jeweler’s copy for everyday wear with the actual award being put away for safe keeping. Of Note: The LDO, “Leistungsgemeinschaft der Deutschen Ordenshersteller”, (Administration of German Medal Manufacturers), began regulating the manufacture of German awards in March 1941 as a quality control agent for awards that were intended for retail sale and manufacturers were to use an assigned LDO, „L“, code on their products destined for retail sales. Awards that were to be bestowed by the government were also issued an official numerical government contract code known as a, “Lieferantnummer”, (Contractors Number), that was issued by the “Präsidialkanzlei des Führers”, (Presidential Council of the Führers), for formally approved manufacturers. The manufacturing firms that were licensed by both the “Präsidialkanzlei des Führers” and the LDO and would have used the same dies to stamp both the official issue and retail sales types of awards making them virtually indistinguishable from one another except for the markings. Regulations of November 1st, 1941 prohibited further manufacturing of the Knight’s Cross for retail sale. Of Note: On June 3rd 1940 a higher echelon of the Knight’s Cross was established with the introduction of the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves and on July 15th 1941 an additional two higher grades of the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves were introduced with the establishment of the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves and Swords and the Knight’s Cross with Oak-Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. Finally, on December 29th, 1944 Hitler established the final grade of the Knight’s Cross with the Golden Oak-Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. Also of Note: The Grand Cross of the Knight’s Cross was only awarded once to Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring and the Knight’s Cross with Golden Oak-Leaves, Swords and Diamonds was also only awarded once to Oberstleutnant Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

 

Back to Otto Schickle from Pforzheim and what he manufactured that days. As a member of LDO (you have seen that above) his company got the LDO Number 15. So if you see something with L/15 it is made by Schickle and normally the value is higher than other badges without marker on the backside. But there are also Schickle made medals and badges out there without L/15 marker……

Let us jump in on the different types of Knight`s Crosses from Schickle and what the collector`s scene says about it.

I have to make clear that I put only opinions in this Schickle report without stepping on one side. Mostly information`s are from experts which are known as experts on the subject. You might know the name Daniel Grünbaum who is an expert on Otto Schickle badges and also very deep in Knight`s Crosses pre 1945 and post 1945. There are a lot of good information from him we have to think about or put a second thought on it….but finally you have to make up your mind for your final opinion. Also I learned a lot from Mr. Dietrich Maerz who wrote books about that topic which are one of the best on the market.

OK let`s put some facts together and see where the road will lead us to.

All the Schickle Crosses have the same loop on the Top of the frame, some with the marker L/15 and some without L/15. At the collectors market we have seen fake crosses with the marker L/15 on the loop or for example a Juncker Knights Cross with an L/15 marker on it to pimp it……well that did not work. So there might be somebody out there with the right stamping tool L/15 but with not enough knowledge to put that marker on the right cross. So that’s an easy one to spot.

Schickle Cross with maker L 15 Ludwig Collection II
Fake marker

 

Also all the Schickle crosses have a die struck mistake in the frame which can be found on every cross which is offered. In the 9 – 12 area of the front frame there you can find it.

 

Fail in Frame Typ 1

Now we move to type one and type two.

Look at the pictures from Ludwig`s grouping and on the very clear embossed numbers on the front and the back.  Also on that Cross you can see the angle of the number 3 upper part in 1939 which “hits the head of the 9” if you draw a line in that direction. Better explained with the following picture here.

hitting the 9

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottom Line for a type 1 Schickle Knight`s cross:

Right size and shape of the loop

Die flaw in the frame 9-12 o`clock area

Clear embossed numbers front and back

Number 3 hits the number 9 (line check)

 

Let`s look at the Type 2 cross.

Here we see almost the same indications like on type 2. You have the same loop on the top of the frame. You have the die flaw on the 9-12 O´clock area on the front frame.

not hitting the 9 Typ 2

Now let`s check the numbers, not the same clear embossed numbers like type 1…….and if you do the line test from the number 3 to the number 9……it is a different angle.

 

That tells me as a none KC experts that we have two different cores in the same frames!

Looking back to the short amount of time Schickle produced their Knight Crosses. Why did they change the design of the core but not the frame? Even if the frame had a “problem” ….

If you look closely on the type 2 core you can see a similarity to the post war crosses made by Steinhauer und Lück. How can that be?

Postwar KC with core Schickle Typ 2

Thoughts (and only thoughts) bringing me to some “Maybe” points.

Maybe it is the truth that Schickle stopped producing type 1 Knight`s Crosses someday and started to produce type 2 until they have to stop it by “whatever” reason.

Maybe Schickle stopped the production of Knight´s Crosses 1941 and after the war all the “unused” frames were sold to anybody who put in a post war core and sold them after May 1945 to the veterans who lost their Crosses during the war.

Maybe Schickle sold their overproduced Schickle frames in 1941 to somebody who made actually Knight`s Crosses during World War 2. So type 2 is a Schickle Knights Cross but not produced by Schickle.

Maybe Schickle`s die tool for manufacturing the cores were getting bad and the numbers weren`t that clear anymore. So there is a possibility that they produced 500 cores with bad number design and put them aside for later. Somebody found them after the war together with other parts from different company’s and started building another version of Schickle crosses.

 

 

But the manufacturer list for Knights Crosses is short. There we have only these companies:

C.E.Juncker, Berlin
Steinhauer & Lück, Lüdenscheid,
Otto Schickle, Pforzheim,
C.F.Zimmermann, Pforzheim,
Gebrüder Godet, Berlin,
Klein & Quenzer, Idar-Oberstein,
Unbekannter Hersteller der frühen Form „Dreiviertel-Öse-Ritterkreuz“ (evtl. Deumer, Lüdenscheid)

As far as Daniel Grünbaum refers is Steinhauer und Lück the only company where you can find nearly identical cores in post war Crosses like type 2 Schickle cores……that’s also a fact to think about.

Theres  also a possibility that Sedlatzek, Schiffer or Souval bought all the rest of different manufacturers and started producing after May 1945.

 

A lot of questions and maybe a good start for more research on the topic.

 

I wonder about the price of Schickle Typ 1 Knight`s Crosses.  The price for a Schickle Cross is far higher than for other crosses. I can remember that a Schickle Type 1 was sold shortly for 10.500,-  Euro without any case, only the cross with ribbon. On the collector’s guild you will find a type 1 for 13925,- US Dollar and on Christian von Eickes Web shop a cross was sold for nearly 13.455,- Euro. Well that’s  a lot of money…….

Schickle Cross to identfy in wear (sadly cant remeber who posted it on WAF)

 

Hope some of the KC Collectors out there will come up with more information on the different types so we can clear out some “maybe`s”.

If you have any other facts and thoughts please let me know and I will be happy to put them down in this report.

If you like what your read, give me a like on Facebook

Take care

Best

Sascha

 

„Subscribe“ / „abonniere“

 

Copyright 2018 : Alle Rechte bei dem Verfasser Sascha Ulderup

Pilot Badge of the Luftwaffe made by OM

Hi Gents,

today we look at a Pilot Badge of the Luftwaffe. That’s not the first one I have in my blog. Sebastien Talbot did an article about the Imme Pilot badge on the February 2nd 2018.Estate of Beier

This time we focus on the pilot badge from a good collector friend who is also known expert on Luftwaffe Badges in the collector community.

Interesting fact is that after all the years of collecting and studying badges of the Luftwaffe we have no idea who really made this badge. There are lots of theory`s but no hard evidence to underline the makers company.

Pilot Badge OM Beier

You might have seen it; we talk about the marker OM. In this case the badge I like to introduce to you is from the estate of Oberleutnant Wilhelm Beier.

Wilhelm Beier was a Knights Cross holder who fought at the Night fighter front over England during World War II.

Beiers OM pilot Badge Backside

He achieved a total of 38 “night” victories and served with 3./NJG 2, 7./NJG 2, 9./NJG 2, 10./NJG 1 and 3./NJG. The tail of his Junker Ju 88 C-6 features 37 “Abschussbalken” which is a really high number. At the end of the War Beier retrained on the Me262.

 

Back to the Pilots Badge, here some historic information:

The pilot’s qualification badge was originally introduced on January 19th, 1935 for award to personnel of the DLV, “Deutscher Luftsportsverband Fliegerschaft”, (German Air Sports Association, Pilot Base), the secret forerunner of the Luftwaffe, who achieved their pilot’s license. The badge was officially adopted by the Luftwaffe on March 26th, 1936, by order of Hermann Göring. The pilot’s badge was awarded on an individual basis to personnel who had successfully completed the appropriate theory and flight training and had achieved their military pilot’s license. As with other flyer’s specialty badges a cloth version of the pilot’s badge was authorized for wear on the flight blouse with a machine embroidered pattern for EM/NCO’s and a hand embroidered pattern for Officers.

Oberleutnant Beier got his Pilot Badge in 1940 (you can see the date on the document) and as far as we know he has worn it until the end of the war. That’s the reason why it is in a “been there” condition. For him it was like a Talisman, that way he always came back from his front duty.

Strüning and Beier

Medals and Awards of Wilhelm Beier

Pilot Badge (OM)

Clasp for Fighter in Silver

Iron Cross 2nd Class 1939

Iron Cross 1st Class 1939

Ehrenpokal of the Luftwaffe

Knights Cross of the Iron Cross 1939

He received his Knights Cross after 14 Kills with his Ju 88 C-6 October 10th 1941. More about his combat plane will follow:

 

The Ju 88C was originally intended as a fighter-bomber and heavy fighter by adding fixed, forward-firing guns to the nose while retaining some bomb carrying ability of the A-series bomber. The C-series had a solid metal nose, typically housing one 20 mm MG FF cannon and three 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns. The aircraft retained the ventral Bola gondola under the crew compartment though individual units sometimes removed this to reduce weight and drag to enhance performance. The Ju-88C was later used as a night fighter, and this became its main role.

Tail Ju 88 Beier

The first version of the Ju 88C was the C-1 with 20 aircraft converted from A-1 airframes. Some of them entered service in the Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 which became part of II./NJG 1 in July 1940. The C-1 was followed by the C-2 of which 20 aircraft were converted from A-5 airframes with enlarged wingspan. The C-4 became the first production version with 60 produced and 60 converted from A-5 airframes. The C-6, of which 900 aircraft were produced, was based on the A-4 airframe with more powerful engines and stronger defensive armament (single- or dual-mount belt-fed 7.92 mm MG 81 or 13 mm MG 131 instead of drum-fed MG 15 machine guns).

The C-6 as night fighter was typically equipped with FuG 202 Lichtenstein BC low-UHF band airborne intercept radar, using the complex 32-dipole Matratze antennas. The first four C-6 night fighters were tested in early 1942 by NJG 2. The trials were successful and the aircraft was ordered into production. In October 1943, many C-6s were upgraded with new radar systems. The first new radar equipment was the FuG 212 Lichtenstein C-1. After the UHF-band Lichtenstein radars had been compromised to the Allies in the late spring of 1943, the next development in German AI radar was the VHF-band FuG 220 Lichtenstein SN-2, discarding the 32-dipole Matratze antennae for the much larger eight-dipole Hirschgeweih (stag’s antlers) aerials, required for the longer wavelength SN-2 system.

Newspaper KC Beier

Many Ju-88C’s had their Bola gondolas modified to hold up to two forward firing 20 mm cannon. Several C-6 night fighters were equipped with two „Schräge-Musik“ upward-firing 20mm cannon in trial fittings, and from mid 1943 onward, there was an official field modification kit available for this arrangement.

A small number of the C-series day fighters had their new solid-metal noses specially painted to resemble the bomber A-series‘ „beetle’s eye“ faceted clear view nose glazing, in an attempt to deceive Allied pilots into thinking the fighters were actually bombers; the unusual „camouflage“ attempt did result initially in a number of Allied aerial losses.

The Ju 88 is not a plane with lots of space for the crew, so we think that he one day in the plane hooked behind something and the catch broke of. They fixed it “in the field”. Not so nice like an expert would do it but it was good enough.

Beier in his Ju 88

The badge has the marker OM on the backside. Some collectors doubt the fact that these badges are original but in fact the picture from Beier with all his Medals made one thing clear. The Badge on his Flight Blouse is the OM Pilot Badge.

Some collectors think that the OM Marker stands Otto Meybauer who was the Brother of Paul Meybauer. Paul Meybauer badges are know and accepted in the collector community. But there is no hard evidence that Otto Meybauer made the OM Badges.

Maybe somebody will soon find out what the mystery behind that was.

Pilot Badge OM on Beiers Uniform

Sadly there is no chance to ask one of THE night fighter experts Tim Calvert, he passed away short time ago. So may he Rest in Peace, we will not forget him.

If you have additional information on OM Badges or pictures, Paperwork or anything related to that, please feel free to contact me and I will bring it on.

 

 

Thanks for reading, please help the blog to get more readers and more writers……Let the other collectors know what you can find here.

Take care

Best

Sascha